Opened 5 years ago

Closed 4 years ago

Last modified 10 months ago

#14159 closed enhancement (fixed)

Tor Messenger branding

Reported by: sukhbir Owned by: sukhbir
Priority: Medium Milestone:
Component: Archived/Tor Messenger Version:
Severity: Keywords: TorMessengerPublic
Cc: arlolra Actual Points:
Parent ID: #14161 Points:
Reviewer: Sponsor:

Description

We should ship Tor Messenger with its own branding, which will include a logo and other icons. We will be working with Leiah on this task.

Child Tickets

Change History (8)

comment:1 Changed 5 years ago by sukhbir

Keywords: TorMessengerPublic added
Parent ID: #14161

comment:2 Changed 5 years ago by sukhbir

Owner: set to sukhbir
Status: newassigned

comment:3 Changed 4 years ago by vynX

I think a tool that leaks all the metadata and social graph of people using it to the involved servers should not be carrying "Tor" in its name. A Tor Messenger should be able to interact peer-to-peer as described in #16062. An improved pidgin is certainly a useful development, too, but it should better stick to a name that doesn't bring about false expectations of metadata safety. It would also turn out impractical and confusing if later we manage to provide for messaging systems that truly leverage the architecture of Tor but the name "Tor Messenger" is taken by something that thinks in terms of legacy client/server architectures with its terrible implications for privacy.

Last edited 4 years ago by vynX (previous) (diff)

comment:4 Changed 4 years ago by arlolra

The architecture you're describing sounds like what TorChat or Ricochet provide, and I think they're doing quite well at it. Tor Messenger is servicing a different use case, at least for now. See https://trac.torproject.org/projects/tor/ticket/5498#comment:3

comment:5 Changed 4 years ago by vynX

"Chat like they used to do" is a shortsighted goal considering they never actually had liberty from surveillance while they were chatting before. This isn't helpful in the goal of "stopping the Internet from being the greatest threat to democracy" (assange/ioerror/jerezim/amm). That may not be your motivation as of this moment, but I am afraid you will later realize you were on the wrong side of history. Client/server architectures are here to die if we want democracy to stay. So I fully agree with the author of #5498 and I'm sorry if I can't deliver a compelling explanation why client/server architectures are a threat in a few lines of a bug ticket. Wait, I can at least hint at it. Check out freehaven.net/anonbib/cache/DBLP:conf/sp/NarayananS09.pdf then imagine the authorities get their hands on $onionServer and comparing its social graph data to those of Facebook, Twitter or jabber.ccc.de. I bet authorities will be successful at de-anonymizing most users of Tor Messenger/Pidgin/youNameIt. Doing a better Pidgin is IMHO not a short-term improvement to the situation. It's furthering and possibly cementing bad habits.

comment:6 Changed 4 years ago by vynX

Thank you @ #16203

comment:7 Changed 4 years ago by arlolra

Resolution: fixed
Status: assignedclosed

Thank you vynX for raising your concerns. Definitely pause for thought, especially about furthering bad habits. I think most people at Tor are pretty excited about Ricochet and its architecture (but I don't speak for anyone beyond myself). I'm not sure what the future holds for Tor Messenger but we'll most likely be releasing it soon. I do feel it has some value in its current state, but that may just be my sunk cost bias speaking. In any case, I look forward to debates about its merits in a more public forum (blog, mailing lists) where others can weigh in on whether they think it's worth pursuing.

Oh, and about the name, I think you're absolutely right that we're going to need to be very careful about not raising false expectations.

Resolving this as it pertains to logos and icons. The existential question remains.

comment:8 Changed 10 months ago by traumschule

<+sukhe> hello. yes, I think it's fine to close the tickets. thanks for doing what we should done earlier :)

sad but true:
https://blog.torproject.org/sunsetting-tor-messenger

luckily there are alternatives:
https://blog.torproject.org/tor-heart-onion-messaging

.. and maybe someday

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