Opened 3 years ago

Last modified 9 months ago

#19057 reopened defect

Prohibit modifications of doc/EmailProvider

Reported by: cypherpunks Owned by:
Priority: Medium Milestone:
Component: Community/Tor Support Version:
Severity: Normal Keywords:
Cc: Actual Points:
Parent ID: Points:
Reviewer: Sponsor:

Description

Someone have created doc/EmailProvider and constantly removes my notes from there. Creating such a list, especially on torproject official website, can be harmful, because it reduces the cost of discovering such services to law enforcement.
The fact users are not identified are flaws in a state, and states will fix them. Those unfixed services are really rare. Creating such a public list will allow law enforcement to fix them all. All the law enforcement will have to do is to monitor such lists and enforce services` owners.

So I propose to lock the page to prevent addition of services and make an official statement about it.

Child Tickets

Change History (7)

comment:1 Changed 3 years ago by mo

I disagree. You seem to have a misconception of how law enforcement works. There is no legal pressure to not accept Tor users; the reason why mail providers start rejecting Tor users is because a minority of the Tor users create annoyances due to spamming and other abuse. In certain situations of course law enforcement would contact a mail provider and ask them to idenify a user, but that is the result of active misuse, not because they found it on a list on the Torproject wiki, and in the usual jurisdiction this is not a legal problem since it is legal to not verify user information. Law enforcement will not reach out and pressure a provider simply because of the fact they allow or don't allow Tor users.

Not listing providers in that sense will protect them from being easily found from a large number of Tor users and abusers. This will reduce the abuse, which will probably result in them allowing Tor "by accident" (by default) for longer. This is a larger discussion around misuse and protecting "valuable" services, but for me the benefits and the publication of such information outweighs the downsides.

Last edited 3 years ago by mo (previous) (diff)

comment:2 Changed 3 years ago by cypherpunks

Hi,

I started that wiki page and I noticed your - from my point of view - unjustified edits/worries.
Please lets discuss that on tor talk, here is the email I wrote:
https://lists.torproject.org/pipermail/tor-talk/2016-May/040915.html

comment:3 Changed 3 years ago by cypherpunks

Resolution: invalid
Status: newclosed

comment:4 Changed 3 years ago by cypherpunks

Resolution: invalid
Status: closedreopened

Your fucking spam filter and fucking recaptcha ate my detailed response for the word bu5ine55. BTW, I have solved recaptcha correctly, but still was kicked. Why do I see this shit on your site?

@mo, in brief: they can be forced either legally (by court order or by law) or illegally (by blackmail using evidence forged or illegally discovered or by stopping bu5ine55 operation (it's legal to stop operation, by the will of law enforcement high ranked officer in my country, so it is often used for blackmailing bu5ine55)) to implement users identification via phone and, may be, browser fingerprinting. Rarity of good email services says that they are. It's not about spam (spam filters using machine learning work extremely well), it's all about not making law enforcement angry.

Please lets discuss that on tor talk, here is the email I wrote:

Sorry, I won't. I have already given you too much deanonymizing information.

Last edited 3 years ago by cypherpunks (previous) (diff)

comment:5 in reply to:  4 Changed 3 years ago by cypherpunks

Replying to cypherpunks:

Your fucking spam filter and fucking recaptcha ate my detailed response for the word bu5ine55. BTW, I have solved recaptcha correctly, but still was kicked. Why do I see this shit on your site?

@mo, in brief: they can be forced either legally (by court order or by law) or illegally (by blackmailing owners by using evidence forged or illegally (surveillance without court order) discovered or by stopping bu5ine55 operation (it's legal to stop operation, by the decision of high-ranked law enforcement officer in my jurisdiction, so it is often used for blackmailing bu5ine55men)) to implement users identification via phone and, may be, browser fingerprinting. Rarity of good email services says that they are. It's not about spam (spam filters using machine learning work extremely well), it's all about not making law enforcement angry.

Please lets discuss that on tor talk, here is the email I wrote:

Sorry, I won't. I have already given you too much deanonymizing information.

comment:6 in reply to:  4 Changed 3 years ago by cypherpunks

Replying to cypherpunks:

Please lets discuss that on tor talk, here is the email I wrote:

Sorry, I won't. I have already given you too much deanonymizing information.

nothing should stop you from creating a random email address at one of the recommended mail providers ;)

comment:7 Changed 9 months ago by teor

Component: Internal Services/WikiCommunity/Tor Support

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