Opened 8 years ago

Closed 8 years ago

#3939 closed task (implemented)

please create a tor-qa list

Reported by: erinn Owned by: phobos
Priority: Medium Milestone:
Component: Company Version:
Severity: Keywords:
Cc: mikeperry, erinn, arma Actual Points:
Parent ID: Points:
Reviewer: Sponsor:

Description

It's me vs. 1000 tor packages. I am not keeping up and I don't think tor-talk is the right list to do QA.

I'm going to see if I can get some volunteers to help me out, short-term (the next three months) and see how it works out, but there is no way we're not going to need QA after that time period, so I think we need a list specifically for this purpose.

Child Tickets

Change History (9)

comment:1 Changed 8 years ago by arma

Are you sure tor-talk isn't the right list?

It seems like a pretty good use of the list to me.

"I'm going to go off to this other mailing list, anybody who cares enough is welcome to follow me" can backfire if you're the only one who cares enough. Critical mass is important for "my Tor broke" discussions. Do you have a set of reliable QA people lined up, or are you hoping they'll materialize if you make a list?

comment:2 Changed 8 years ago by mikeperry

There is definitely something to be said for "don't split the mailing list too early".

However, there is also something to be said for bludgeoning every tor-talk troll who complains about anything to get the fuck onto tor-qa and help us fix this shit before they have to use it as their primary Tor Browser. They can run multiple in parallel, after all.

It's definitely a tradeoff. The latter would help me to relieve some stress, though ;).

Of course, will the trolls just stare us down and do nothing if we stop shipping independent torbutton xpis (so they can't live in their own insecure isolated worlds without tbb)? Maybe. There is always that risk... For example, how many Torbutton releases on tor-talk have gotten no replies? My impression is "most of them", but I haven't actually counted.

Further, independent of the larger question of "will our user base actually use our software", I think logistically Erinn needs some place to just send a url of a random build and say "Test this please" without diffusion of responsibility kicking in and nobody saying anything...

So maybe it's not an actual public mailinglist. Maybe it's a smaller list of committed people similar to tor-assistants? Don't we have anyone that really wants to run pre-releases of our software in order to make sure it works for them when they need it?

comment:3 Changed 8 years ago by mikeperry

Since 1.2.5, four torbutton releases had only one person reply (other than trolls and NetBSD users), and three releases had zero replies. I must be great at writing bug-free software.

comment:4 in reply to:  2 Changed 8 years ago by arma

Replying to mikeperry:

Further, independent of the larger question of "will our user base actually use our software", I think logistically Erinn needs some place to just send a url of a random build and say "Test this please" without diffusion of responsibility kicking in and nobody saying anything...

Ok, I'm sold. Sounds like a great idea.

comment:5 Changed 8 years ago by erinn

Sorry for not replying before, I actually didn't see any of arma's comments. So, in my own words, even though you're sold:

I think that longer-term, tor-qa will also be the right list for discussing broken builds, and its existence could in theory attract QA-minded people who come across our list of lists and want to subscribe to random things. And I think it will be a good list for sending automated stuff too, which I definitely feel is inappropriate for the existing culture of tor-talk and would annoy most of the entrenched userbase there.

And even if hardly anyone replies, at least Mike and I have a more public (and archived) place to do nothing at all but discuss the various ways things are broken and can be improved, from a development/QA standpoint. Then we can point people at links.

I want a public mailing list though. I want people to be able to sign up and lurk and pitch in the second they feel they have something valuable to add. I am adamantly opposed to anything even vaguely closed (except for a case where 'closed' means 'subscriber-only' although ideally we would be able to keep it open where subscription was not required for participation).

comment:6 Changed 8 years ago by rransom

Cc: erinn added

comment:7 Changed 8 years ago by mikeperry

Cc: arma added

Is phobos the right owner for this ticket? Shouldn't it now be weasel or something? Who controls lists.torproject.org?

comment:8 in reply to:  7 Changed 8 years ago by arma

Replying to mikeperry:

Is phobos the right owner for this ticket? Shouldn't it now be weasel or something? Who controls lists.torproject.org?

I think phobos is currently the godking of mailing lists, with sebastian helping out but also being on vacation.

Sounds like we should stage a coup and add a rival godking. Nominations?

comment:9 Changed 8 years ago by phobos

Resolution: implemented
Status: newclosed

tor-qa list created per erinn's parameters.

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