Opened 8 years ago

Closed 5 years ago

Last modified 13 months ago

#5498 closed enhancement (invalid)

Tor IM Bundle - use decentralized system (ex: cabels or TorChat)

Reported by: proper Owned by: erinn
Priority: Medium Milestone:
Component: Archived/Tor Messenger Version:
Severity: Keywords: needs-triage
Cc: mk@…, intrigeri@…, sukhbir, special Actual Points:
Parent ID: Points:
Reviewer: Sponsor:

Description

I don't see much point in fixing Pidgin. Nothing wrong with Pidgin, but not really made for use with Tor. Jabber is also a fine protocol, but not made for censor resistance.

I suggest switching to something decentralized. Why?

A jabber jid like "julian.aange at jabber.us"... How long do you think it would last? That is, why you invented hidden services.

No need to reinvent the wheel...

  • There is already cabels [1] (from Liberte Linux developer) and torchat [2].
  • Both use hidden services.
  • Both are independent from a centralized servers.
  • Both projects are alive.
  • Both developers are friendly, listening for feedback, fixing vulnerabilities.

So here is the idea:

  • Contact one or the other developer or both.
  • See what you like about their application and what not. What prevents you from using it for the Tor Im Browser Bundle.
  • Ask them, whether they are interested to see their application bundled within an official Tor Browser IM Bundle.
  • Ask them, if they would fix, what you complain about (any insecure things, if any).

[1] http://dee.su/cables
[2] https://github.com/prof7bit/TorChat

Child Tickets

Change History (9)

comment:1 Changed 8 years ago by mk

Cc: mk@… added

comment:2 Changed 8 years ago by proper

Two updates:

  1. cc mk@… added: The cabels developer subscribed itself to this ticket.
  1. There is also jtorchat [3]. Similar to torchat, but no python dependency. A java rewrite. They have many developers (click people). More features than torchat.

[3] https://code.google.com/p/jtorchat/

comment:3 Changed 8 years ago by phobos

Most of the timbb users wanted to use their existing chat networks, but didn't want to advertise their location to the chat provider. Or wanted to actually be able to chat like they used to do before their government/school/employer blocked chat. These are the two primary use cases. This is not an either/or proposition. TIMBB has relevance and is still desired. If someone wants to create a decentralized timbb, more power to them. It's not something we have the people nor time to work on this year.

comment:4 Changed 8 years ago by intrigeri

Cc: intrigeri@… added

comment:5 in reply to:  3 Changed 8 years ago by proper

Replying to phobos:

Most of the timbb users wanted to use their existing chat networks, but didn't want to advertise their location to the chat provider. Or wanted to actually be able to chat like they used to do before their government/school/employer blocked chat. These are the two primary use cases.

Quite a different thread model than I had in mind. Mine was more about activists, dissidents... But you are right, Tor also needs that kind of users to create loads of diversity inside the network.

This is not an either/or proposition. TIMBB has relevance and is still desired.

Is there a roadmap or are devs still working on Pidgin-Tor?

If someone wants to create a decentralized timbb, more power to them.

A centralized and a decentralized timbb could coexist?

It's not something we have the people nor time to work on this year.

Tpo does not have to develop it from scratch. My proposal is to cooperate (review, critique, etc.) with one of the existing developers (cabels, torchat, jtorchat). The decentralized timbb almost exists. Only lacks a few details. If tpo has no time for cooperation as well, then a decentralized system has also no chance to become an official timbb.

comment:6 Changed 5 years ago by erinn

Keywords: needs-triage added

comment:7 Changed 5 years ago by erinn

Component: Tor bundles/installationTor Messenger

comment:8 in reply to:  3 Changed 5 years ago by arlolra

Cc: sukhbir special added
Resolution: invalid
Status: newclosed

phobos' thoughts in comment 3 are astute and sum up the position quite well. There are different use cases; not much else to be said. Ricochet is another decentralized system making waves.

comment:9 Changed 13 months ago by traumschule

<+sukhe> hello. yes, I think it's fine to close the tickets. thanks for doing what we should done earlier :)

sad but true:
https://blog.torproject.org/sunsetting-tor-messenger

luckily there are alternatives:
https://blog.torproject.org/tor-heart-onion-messaging

.. and maybe someday

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